Epxoy Advice - and more

Topics pertaining to fibre glassing, finishing issues, concerns and tips, epoxies and epoxy problems/resolves
cruiserbill
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:04 pm
Location: Indiana

Epxoy Advice - and more

Post by cruiserbill » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:08 pm

Hello Everyone,

I posted the below question in another forum and basically was told to forget building and buy a boat. Mostly because building is so difficult and building a plywood boat is worthless (I live in the US) at resale.

From what I have seen, I can't buy and get the boat that would fill the bill so I wanted to build. So after saying that, I am trying to put a good price list together for building a couple different boats. I have narrowed it down to two boats, but I am working onm the price list right now for the 12M Sarah.

So I am looking for advice in a different setting amongst home builders.

Here is the original post:

"Hello all,

I have a couple of years to really come up with a good plan of attack on building an ocean going cat. My plan is to build a Peter Snell 12M Sarah. www.easycatamarans.com

The boat will be made out of Joubert Okoume Marine ply with Douglas Fir timber.

After reading a lot on epoxy in this and other forums I have come to a possibility of epoxies that I think will fit the bill. I have also read the Gougeon Brothers book.

I am considering Silvertip for glassing the hulls and possibly the structural frames and MarinEpoxy for everything else to include the glues.

So my question is two-fold: is this a good plan, and, how much epoxy will I need for the hulls - how much does "X" amount of epoxy cover?

The designer calls for 300kg (36 gals) of epoxy and 300 meters (325 yds) of 200g (6oz ??) glass cloth for the whole project along with q-cell and microfibers. I figure that I will need a little more epoxy than that though.

If there are any pros out there I would really appreciate your input as I would from anyone with experience.

I have worked with bondo in autobody, but never tried fiberglass.

Thanks for your help!

CB"

Please provide your opinions. I really want to make a good decision. There is another boat I would like to build, but more and more it is looking out of reach due to several factors beyond my control. Here's hoping though.

Thanks!!!!

kjay
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:03 am
Location: brisbane

Re: Epxoy Advice - and more

Post by kjay » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:46 pm

CB,
My advice would be to stick to one epoxy brand, that way you will become familiar with the way it handles. I am using a 2:1 mix while others are using 5:1 each are good but have different characteristics so which ever you choose stick to one brand if possible. The quantities that Peter suggests is about right however I have used 450db cloth on the leading edges and mini keel for extra protection for when I hit something.
John

44c
Posts: 1148
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:08 am
Location: Hervey Bay, Qld

Re: Epxoy Advice - and more

Post by 44c » Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:11 pm

Don't listen to the people who say "you can't". What they are really saying is "I can't"

There's not much that's more satisfying that sailing a boat you built yourself.

As for the epoxy, I've never heard of those brands, but maybe that's because we live in different countries. If you stick to well known reputable brands and follow the instructions you should have no problems.

Just remember epoxy is an allergen, and it's effects are cumulative, so avoid exposure and contact right from the start.

Jim
Posts: 691
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 8:25 am
Location: Cairns

Re: Epxoy Advice - and more

Post by Jim » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:35 pm

I agree with the above comments, stick to one brand and use it as they say. Peter tends to be a bit short on the supply list, so I would add 10 to 20% of everything. I used almost double the recommended amount (44gals) of epoxy on my boat, Easy 37, as did another local builder. Spend some time and have a good look over this forum as there is a wealth of information here for the first time builder.
Cheers,
Jim.

comsa
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:53 am

Re: Epxoy Advice - and more

Post by comsa » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:29 am

Try 'AeroMarine 300/21 15 Gallon Kit' resin from AeroMarine Products (
http://www.aeromarineproducts.com/). The resin and hardener from them pretty much like Silvertips epoxy. They are from CA and they ship across US for a reasonable price.
You could even call 877 342 8860 and talk to Jennifer for discount if you are lookin for a budget resin.
-SP

cruiserbill
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:04 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: Epxoy Advice - and more

Post by cruiserbill » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:28 am

Thanks for the words of encouragement Alan. Silvertip is made by System 3 and is non-blushing. It's right up there with West System quality without having to use peel-ply. At least that is what my findings are any way. I haven't had the pleasure of using either yet. It is also 2:1 which from what I gather is more forgiving to errors than Wests 5:1???

Comsa - aeromarine had a page to order free samples which I did order. Thanks for the info.

John and Jim - You have a point in learning one epoxy. I'll take that advice.

44c
Posts: 1148
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:08 am
Location: Hervey Bay, Qld

Re: Epxoy Advice - and more

Post by 44c » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:50 am

I never had any problems with 5:1 epoxies either. I mixed by weight though - buy a set of digital kitchen scales - they'll last through the whole build process, and mix by weight. Works every time.

I highly recommend using peelply too. It saves a ton of work preparing surfaces for secondary bonding or bogging, painting etc.

puremajek
Posts: 753
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 7:36 pm
Location: Brisbane Australia
Contact:

Re: Epxoy Advice - and more

Post by puremajek » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:24 am

Hi CB
Have used both and ended up with 5:1 for price (in my case). There is some 'good meat' in these posts:
I mixed by weight though - buy a set of digital kitchen scales - they'll last through the whole build process, and mix by weight. Works every time - 44c
I would add 10 to 20% of everything - Jim
I highly recommend using peelply too. It saves a ton of work preparing surfaces for secondary bonding or bogging, painting etc - 44c
(44gals) of epoxy - Jim
however I have used 450db cloth on the leading edges and mini keel for extra protection - kjay
Don't listen to the people who say "you can't". What they are really saying is "I can't" - 44c
For my bit, I echo all the above, especially the last comment.

What you may want to remember too is that any change you make, no matter how small (i.e. cupboard doors, thicker shelves, internal timber lining, extra resin 'here and there', improved 'cruiserbill' home-made window fittings, waste etc etc) all add to the $$$ list. Even with your fit out list, adding inverters, switches and all the glossy bits, all add to the cost.

I would strongly take Jims advice (above) as a minimum no matter which yacht you choose. If you come in under budget - thats cool but if the opposite occurs (which is highly likely) you are prepared.

I may regret saying this, but there are some nice yachts (34-40' cats) on the 2nd hand market in the US that can be picked up for under USD200 (saw some on 2hulls 12 months ago). With some work they can be refitted in your own time with your own items for 50-80K ???? Just a thought. Having said all this, for us it was about building our own, which may be your wish too.
James
______________________________________________
http://www.diycatamaran.com
______________________________________________

sea_bee
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:09 pm
Location: Pillar Valley NSW

Re: Epxoy Advice - and more

Post by sea_bee » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:00 am

puremajek wrote: ... any change you make, no matter how small ... all add to the $$$
... and the kgs

cruiserbill
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:04 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: Epxoy Advice - and more

Post by cruiserbill » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:32 pm

I really appreciate all the advice. I am not taking it lightly.

James - I understand the comment "for us it was about building our own, which may be your wish too."

I really wasn't wanting to build a cat so it would be worth something. I wanted it to sail and I like building stuff. I have rarely hired anyone to build or repair anything.

I talked with the 1st Mate this morning and we have decided to build a dinghy to get our ship building hands into shape for the big project. So that should start soon! Does anyone have an fav dinghy design they like?

Awesome forum! Thanks to all for the encouragement.

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