Schionning wilderness 1100 - partial

Build logs from members building catamarans, trimarans and other multi-hull variants.
coachdaz
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:53 am

Schionning wilderness 1100 - partial

Post by coachdaz » Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:49 am

Hello one and all,
I am an ozzy like many of you, who was dying to build a sailing catamaran when I finally found the right time. Alas where I now live in San Diego it was not possible to find a shed, or boat yard or back yard and I'll be there for a few more years. Instead I started a search for a hull, which I could complete part time even if I had to travel. This lead me first to south africa (where I found an Island spirit 401) and other places, but last month I finally decided on a partially completed Schionning Wilderness 1100 based at Sale, Victoria. Years of brilliant and meticulous work has been completed by Max who is sadly too ill to complete it. My patient partner will allow me to work on it month on, month off starting from later this year but this april I spend my first 3 weeks on the build and I cannot wait.

Before I realised I couldn't actually find a build site in San Diego, I'd had the pleasure to meet and talk to Peter from Easy, Jeff and Lorraine from Schionning, Gary Lidgard, Craig and Mariana Schionning of Spirited and the ozzy distributor for Fusion, so I was pretty serious in finding something to build. Pretty helpful and talented people I must say.

I am a bit of a fake compared to you good folk who started from scratch, and I'm a real newby, but I've read loads, been through all the blogs here, laughed at some, empathised with your pride when it was clear and felt for you too at your low points. The good nature and sharing is wonderful, and humbling because while new I hope to contribute at some stage when I am not such a green horn; your collective wealth of insight and experience is outrageous.

Here are a few photos of Max's boat which I hope to add my flavour to in due course. No doubt some of you might have seen it sitting on the Schionning website. I will add some more shots once I get going, and no doubt will have some questions too.
best regards and thanks for helping to inspire someone else,
Darren Smith
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44c
Posts: 1148
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:08 am
Location: Hervey Bay, Qld

Re: Schionning wilderness 1100 - partial

Post by 44c » Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:04 am

Don't know about being a fake, there's still plenty of work for you to be going on with! Sad about the original builder's failing health.

Some thoughts:

Epoxy can cause strong allergic reactions in some people, and it's cumulative, so even if you're fine to start with, prolonged exposure can cause problems. Avoid contact with epoxy (and it's fumes when curing), right from the start. Just simple measures, like gloves and barrier cream, and using a GOOD respirator can prevent you from possibly being unable to complete the boat.

Is it going to have outboards? If so, I'd strongly recommend kick-up rudders also. A Schionning owner paid me a fair bit of money to convert his fixed rudders to kick-ups.

He also got me to enlarge his rudders. It seems quite a few of the Schionnings have rudders on the small side. His were easily being overpowered by the mainsail, the boat rounding up uncontrollably in gusts. That was a Wilderness 1120.

Easier to make the rudders a bit bigger at this stage.

Best of luck with the project, it will be well worth it in a few years when you're off sailing!

Finally
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:24 am
Location: Cairns

Re: Schionning wilderness 1100 - partial

Post by Finally » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:55 am

Hi Darren

Welcome aboard. As you would have no doubt found by now, there's heaps of info on this board.

With all the launchings happening recently, it's good to see I'm not alone, plugging away to get my boat finished and in the water.

I'd second what 44C has said about your rudders. I visited a 56' Schionning down in SA recently and suggested he get someone to check out the size of his rudders (remembering what 44C had told me during a recent visit to Cairns). They looked smaller on his 56 footer compared to my baby 40 footer. He got a local shipwright with 50 odd years experience to have a look and he was amazed as to how small they were. I haven't seen the finished upgrade but have been told they are about 50% bigger in area.

Good luck with your build and keep posting pictures (I love stealing ideas from other builds :D ).

David

mahnamahna
Posts: 580
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: Gosford NSW

Re: Schionning wilderness 1100 - partial

Post by mahnamahna » Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:44 pm

Hi Darren, So glad Max's boat will get the finish his earlier work deserves, I am very sad for Max and Elsie, good luck if you are reading Max, maybe you will sail with me one day when I finally launch.

I have larger than spec rudders. Some early bi rigs reported stalling in a tack so we upped the rudders in the hope of powering through. About 30% by length not sure by surface area.

Sounds like you are finishing in Max's shed. San Diego to Sale is a hellova build commute :o

coachdaz
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:53 am

Re: Schionning wilderness 1100 - partial

Post by coachdaz » Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:46 pm

Thanks for the notes, fellas, appreciated.

44c, I'm a big fan of your insight. Picked up so many good ideas from you. Was discussing with another poster here, Mick from ROAM, he suggested i ask you about how you finished inside the boat. I read you sprayed Jotun Imperite 300 outside, but did you roll a thicker paint on the insides? I hear spraying Imp 300 inside is pretty unforgiving with pin holes etc, and I guess I will not go compulsive disorder level about internal fairing.
No outboards, we already have 21hp Nannis, and no lift up rudders built into transom; but I am on the job of investigating rudder sizes since mine have been shaped but not glassed yet, so not so hard to modify at this point in time. thanks for the tips.

'Finally', thanks, 50% bigger ehh. Length isn't everything is it, so investigate how to increase size, without balance issues etc.

'mahnamahna'- Max is such a super guy, and in 6 weeks time I will be in his shed hopefully with him barking orders from a directors chair in the cockpit!
Keep up the good work, I read all your blogs. I grew up near the Hawkesbury, and have family between Berowra and Nelson's Bay, so will touch base when I am next in the area. SD to Sale is a long commute, but mate, I am currently an olympic triathlon coach (finishing up after RIO) and I'm writing to you from near Cape Town. Next week I am in San Diego, the week after up the Sunny Coast of Oz. My wife is in Rio; I don't know whether i am arthur or martha some days. Max laughs when i call him up from all over the world.

mahnamahna
Posts: 580
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: Gosford NSW

Re: Schionning wilderness 1100 - partial

Post by mahnamahna » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:05 pm

Olympic triathlon trainer huh? So you are fit enough for a partial boat build, not a full, you need to be Olympic marathon standard for that! :shock:

Say hi to Max for me, I havent spoken to him for a couple of months. You are welcome to visit anytime. Cheers, Paul

44c
Posts: 1148
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:08 am
Location: Hervey Bay, Qld

Re: Schionning wilderness 1100 - partial

Post by 44c » Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:03 pm

coachdaz wrote:Thanks for the notes, fellas, appreciated.

44c, I'm a big fan of your insight. Picked up so many good ideas from you. Was discussing with another poster here, Mick from ROAM, he suggested i ask you about how you finished inside the boat. I read you sprayed Jotun Imperite 300 outside, but did you roll a thicker paint on the insides? I hear spraying Imp 300 inside is pretty unforgiving with pin holes etc, and I guess I will not go compulsive disorder level about internal fairing.
Thanks! I sprayed Imperite 300 on the saloon ceiling, rolled on Jotakote 605 on pretty much all of the rest of the interior.

The Jotakote 605 can be bought with the same tints as Imperite, and does cover a lot of imperfections. It goes on pretty thick.

HOWEVER. It changes colour with age, goes darker. It also wears in high use areas, gets marked up a fair bit, and isn't easy to clean.

If I was doing it over, I think I'd do the ceiling the same - Imperite is very good, I had mine de-glossed to a satin finish, which means the faring only needs to be about 95% and still looks good. You're right about pinholes though, Imperite won't cover them. Rolling or brushing on highbuild seems to be the most effective way of getting rid of them.

For the rest, where I used the Jotakote, I think I'd use a washable satin finish house paint. A couple of boats I know have used this, (School's Out is one) and it seems to be standing up very well. Big pluses over the Jotakote are: it doesn't change colour dramatically, and it's very easy to touch-up.

House type paints can be bought with mould prevention agents too. They're far less toxic to use as well, brushes/rollers wash out in water etc... far easier to use.

If you'd prefer a more glossy finish, but short of the full gloss, then de-glossed Imperite would be another option, but would call for a bit higher level of fairing. Probably the best option for wet areas like bathrooms etc.

But spraying 2 pac polyurethane paints in enclosed spaces is a pretty nasty job. Deglossed and foam rollers would be my method of choice.

Oh yeah, inside deck lockers etc, the Jotakote is great. Goes on like treacle, fills the weave, pretty quick and easy way to do them.

Actually when we were repairing School's Out, a Jotun rep was suggesting we use Jotakote as a highbuild. I think it might be a bit harder to sand than the Pengard though. I'll probably find out soon, because I need to refinish some of the Jotakoted areas on our boat. When I get round to it...

Hope this has been helpful to you, cheers, Alan.

44c
Posts: 1148
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:08 am
Location: Hervey Bay, Qld

Re: Schionning wilderness 1100 - partial

Post by 44c » Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:13 pm

coachdaz wrote: 'Finally', thanks, 50% bigger ehh. Length isn't everything is it, so investigate how to increase size, without balance issues etc.
If you just scale them up, balance shouldn't be affected. Just a "gut" feel, I'd suggest making them about 130% compared to original. (ie 30% bigger, not 130% bigger!).

groper
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:23 am
Location: cairns

Re: Schionning wilderness 1100 - partial

Post by groper » Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:15 pm

I sprayed 2pak PU all through the interior. The key for me was to firstly suit up in disposable overalls, then setup really good ventialtion using one of those extraction fans with a length of consertina flexible duct. Id start spraying near the duct and work my way back away from it so the overspray was being pulled away from me... Still need a good respirator and lots of charcoal filters tho, i used the sundstrom ones...

For pinholes, the system i used was pretty simple. When the fairing is finished, there were still large areas which had no bog on them. These are where the pinholes are. So when ready to start the painting, firstly roll it on to get it out of the paint tray - then whilst its still wet, float the freshly painted area with a broad steel trowel - like the concreters use to hand finish a concrete slab. You will leave little rasied lines of paint off the edge of the trowel - but these sand out real quick when you sand the whole thing back ready for the topcoat. If the pinholes are real bad - youll have to high build a second time to get them all out usually. So roll an area, trowel it, then move to the next area and keep going until the paint tray is empty :)

THe trowel pushes the paint into the grooves / holes etc and doesnt pull it out again like a roller does when you roll over them. It fills them in teh same fashion as when you do the bogging and drag a straight edge across it to fill in lows... same idea, runnier bog (paint)...

sea_bee
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:09 pm
Location: Pillar Valley NSW

Re: Schionning wilderness 1100 - partial

Post by sea_bee » Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:21 pm

I'm a bit concerned about this discussion of oversized rudders. It seems like a major modification of the design.

What does the designer say about this change? If required, why has the design not been changed? Is it a design fault, or someone doesn't set their sails properly trimmed and balanced?

After all, a rudder is simply a brake (ignoring the small amount of lift that a little weather helm can create).

Chris

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