Window Tinting
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mahnamahna
- Posts: 580
- Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:48 pm
- Location: Gosford NSW
Re: Window Tinting
I dont have a members multi page (and wont start one now, will just have to get my blog up to date, been a bit slack with it recently) so thought this might be an appropriate place to post this. I got my mullions in on the weekend and finally cut out my windows today. Very happy with the layout I have. Heaps of light and I reckon I have about the biggest windows into my forward bedrooms of any schionning out there, maybe every 40foot cat.
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mahnamahna
- Posts: 580
- Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:48 pm
- Location: Gosford NSW
Re: Window Tinting
Hi Allan, hope you are still around. I rang a couple of the Tintgard Sydney retailers/appliers about Polygard. First one said nope, cannot tint plastic windows but I gathered from the brief discussion they dont carry Polygard any more. The other one, in Sutherland (about 200kms from Gosford in the very south of Sydney) was extremely helpful and stocks Polygard and confirmed it can be applied to either inside or outside of polycarbonate or acrylic, he seemed very knowledgeable and said they did quite a lot of boats now, but he was also quite convinced that in the marine environment that I would be far happier if I applied the silver film to the inside of the windows. He thought that it would be almost if not just as effective at heat reduction reflecting from the inside on clear windows but that the film would last twice as long on the inside than the outside and that the likely life of the film on the outside was 3 years and I might be lucky and get 5.
I guess a definite downside of inside is that you dont get the extra scratch resistance of the film and you also dont get the protection from crazing the film might buy you if light still travels through the window first.
What are your thoughts. Would you still go with outside over inside? On the one hand the film lasts longer but the windows may craze faster, on the other hand the film degrades faster but the windows are protected more.
I guess a definite downside of inside is that you dont get the extra scratch resistance of the film and you also dont get the protection from crazing the film might buy you if light still travels through the window first.
What are your thoughts. Would you still go with outside over inside? On the one hand the film lasts longer but the windows may craze faster, on the other hand the film degrades faster but the windows are protected more.
Re: Window Tinting
Paul,
Good infomation, what would be the downside other than cost if you were to apply the film to both sides of the polycarbonate?
John
Good infomation, what would be the downside other than cost if you were to apply the film to both sides of the polycarbonate?
John
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mahnamahna
- Posts: 580
- Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:48 pm
- Location: Gosford NSW
Re: Window Tinting
Sorry John, didnt mean to confuse. The film would go onto either the outside or the inside. I see merit in both arguments but dont know which way to go. I guess protecting the windows from crazing and extending their life would be the most convincing argument.
The guy at tintgard said that although Polygard is designed to go onto polycarbonate or acrylic, he said the life span on a boat if fitted to the outside of the windows would be 3 years, 5 years at best. But if fitted to the inside it would at least double to 6 to 10 years.
He is convinced that on clear acrylic or polycarb, the film would be equally effective at reflecting heat on the inside of the window. I guess then the only disadvantage of having it fitted to the inside instead of the outside would be that you are allowing the uv to hit the window, go through it before being reflected and as a result you dont get the protection from crazing that you would with the film on the outside and reflecting light before it hit the plastic.
I would be interested to know what the preference would be, longer life for the film or longer life for the polycarb or acrylic.
All of this assumes clear acrylic or polycarb of course. If you use dark tint then the film is useless on the inside as the dark tint plastic will heat up anyway and you wont stop radiated heat through the windows into the boat. So if I go with film it will be on clear. I just need to decide if I will put it on the inside or the outside.
All comments welcome.
The guy at tintgard said that although Polygard is designed to go onto polycarbonate or acrylic, he said the life span on a boat if fitted to the outside of the windows would be 3 years, 5 years at best. But if fitted to the inside it would at least double to 6 to 10 years.
He is convinced that on clear acrylic or polycarb, the film would be equally effective at reflecting heat on the inside of the window. I guess then the only disadvantage of having it fitted to the inside instead of the outside would be that you are allowing the uv to hit the window, go through it before being reflected and as a result you dont get the protection from crazing that you would with the film on the outside and reflecting light before it hit the plastic.
I would be interested to know what the preference would be, longer life for the film or longer life for the polycarb or acrylic.
All of this assumes clear acrylic or polycarb of course. If you use dark tint then the film is useless on the inside as the dark tint plastic will heat up anyway and you wont stop radiated heat through the windows into the boat. So if I go with film it will be on clear. I just need to decide if I will put it on the inside or the outside.
All comments welcome.
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jaleel_da_sheik
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:57 pm
- Location: Oregon, USA
Re: Window Tinting
based on your findings that film installed on either the outside or the inside will reflect the same amount of heat, it sounds like it comes down to replacement cost/lifespan.
will it be cheaper to replace the film installed on the exterior every 3-5 years or replace the windows with film installed on the interior every ?? years? keep in mind that when you replace the window, the film will be replaced at the same time.
i'm thinking i would select an exterior film if i was worried about the windows crazing. use the film as a sacrifical barrier/protectant for your windows. i'd also want to see an example of the film installer's work (both interior and exterior) that has been out in the elements over a couple of years to see how their product is holding up. they should be able to put you in touch with previous clients.
- sheik
will it be cheaper to replace the film installed on the exterior every 3-5 years or replace the windows with film installed on the interior every ?? years? keep in mind that when you replace the window, the film will be replaced at the same time.
i'm thinking i would select an exterior film if i was worried about the windows crazing. use the film as a sacrifical barrier/protectant for your windows. i'd also want to see an example of the film installer's work (both interior and exterior) that has been out in the elements over a couple of years to see how their product is holding up. they should be able to put you in touch with previous clients.
- sheik
Re: Window Tinting
Sorry Paul, I meant what if you apply to both the inside and outside at the same time.
John
John
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mahnamahna
- Posts: 580
- Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:48 pm
- Location: Gosford NSW
Re: Window Tinting
Hi John, not sure you would want to put the film on both sides, mostly because it may result in loss of visibility through the windows. Most cats require visibility through the windows from the helm. On Nine lives he had dark acrylic on his aft cabin window as well as the forward cabin windows and all he could see from the helm was his image in the black mirror. You cant see through 2 sets of dark tint, I imagine the silver tint would be the same.
The other information I did not relay is that the good film is about $100 a square meter installed if they come to me, about $90 a sq meter if I take the windows to them, I have about 6 square meters of windows on my boat. I have a lot of window area in my boat, see pics above, including into my bedrooms.
And to put that into perspective, I have had a quote for the actual windows of about $2000 including 4 of them going into the oven ($100 per window that requires heat molding) for 8mm clear acrylic. Polycarbonate is about 20% more and dark (black colored plastic in either poly or acrylic) is about 20% more again. So my windows are going to be around the $2500 mark regardless of which kind of tint I go for or 20% more if I opt for polycarb.
So the film is about 25% of the cost of the windows.
But the window tint film is about the same cost as plastic pre tinted.
Acrylic is harder wearing than polycarbonate, in that acrylic resists scratching better but polycarb is stronger (it is technically softer than but stronger than acrylic). The window tint film is more scratch resistant than either polycarbonate or acrylic and is made from Polyethylene terephthalate (PET). Not that that means much to me, but it might to the more chemistry minded here. Its more scratch resistant is all I need to know. That is what leads me to lean toward fitting it to the outside of the windows even knowing it wont last as long. I figure its the outside that are going to scratch. And scratches and crazing are the enemy of plastic windows.
Perhaps one of the more longer term cruisers could answer this, how long did your plastic windows last before they start to craze? Did that crazing make you wish there was a way to reduce or stop it, at the cost of say $500 every 5 years would that have convinced you? Were they badly enough crazed that they needed to be replaced (whether you did or not?). This is the kind of information that might help some of us decide which is the best way to go.
Allan (44C) in particular, as he has experience with the film option.
The other information I did not relay is that the good film is about $100 a square meter installed if they come to me, about $90 a sq meter if I take the windows to them, I have about 6 square meters of windows on my boat. I have a lot of window area in my boat, see pics above, including into my bedrooms.
And to put that into perspective, I have had a quote for the actual windows of about $2000 including 4 of them going into the oven ($100 per window that requires heat molding) for 8mm clear acrylic. Polycarbonate is about 20% more and dark (black colored plastic in either poly or acrylic) is about 20% more again. So my windows are going to be around the $2500 mark regardless of which kind of tint I go for or 20% more if I opt for polycarb.
So the film is about 25% of the cost of the windows.
But the window tint film is about the same cost as plastic pre tinted.
Acrylic is harder wearing than polycarbonate, in that acrylic resists scratching better but polycarb is stronger (it is technically softer than but stronger than acrylic). The window tint film is more scratch resistant than either polycarbonate or acrylic and is made from Polyethylene terephthalate (PET). Not that that means much to me, but it might to the more chemistry minded here. Its more scratch resistant is all I need to know. That is what leads me to lean toward fitting it to the outside of the windows even knowing it wont last as long. I figure its the outside that are going to scratch. And scratches and crazing are the enemy of plastic windows.
Perhaps one of the more longer term cruisers could answer this, how long did your plastic windows last before they start to craze? Did that crazing make you wish there was a way to reduce or stop it, at the cost of say $500 every 5 years would that have convinced you? Were they badly enough crazed that they needed to be replaced (whether you did or not?). This is the kind of information that might help some of us decide which is the best way to go.
Allan (44C) in particular, as he has experience with the film option.
Re: Window Tinting
One of my side hull windows started to craze after about 6 mths and a few of the others over the next 18 mths. Some are still perfect and it doesn't seem to mater where they are on the boat. There are good ones right next to the crappy ones, which will be replaced this year. I think it is the inconsistant quality in the sheets themselves and nothing to do with the position of the boat in the marina as I have had it bow in or stern in, so no one side is exposed to the sun all the time. I don't believe they will scratch up if you look after them. When I wash my boat, usually with a broom, I only ever wash the windows with a soft cloth and it seems to work well. I also make sure no towels or clothes can touch the windows when they are flapping about in the wind while drying.
This is all "the theory according to Jim" and no science at all.
Jim.
This is all "the theory according to Jim" and no science at all.
Jim.
Re: Window Tinting
I think a recent issue of cruising helmsman had an article on how to repair crazed acrylic windows.
John
John
Re: Window Tinting
my turn to resurrect this thread
Will be getting my windows next week and want to apply the film before they get installed.
Can i ask everyone what film they are using
Is it a special for acrylic or just normal film
What is the light transmission. Seems like most of the reflective ones are only about 15 to 20% I found some that is 35% visible light transmission (VLT seems to be how they are all measured) but it is a normal film. At $165 for enough to do the boat 5 times over who cares if it gets replaced every 2 or 3 years. I think if the edges are sealed, as per 44c did, that would stop a lot of the problems. Trying to get an idea of how dark it can be while still giving good night vision through it.
Will be getting my windows next week and want to apply the film before they get installed.
Can i ask everyone what film they are using
Is it a special for acrylic or just normal film
What is the light transmission. Seems like most of the reflective ones are only about 15 to 20% I found some that is 35% visible light transmission (VLT seems to be how they are all measured) but it is a normal film. At $165 for enough to do the boat 5 times over who cares if it gets replaced every 2 or 3 years. I think if the edges are sealed, as per 44c did, that would stop a lot of the problems. Trying to get an idea of how dark it can be while still giving good night vision through it.