Antifouling Options

Tips and pointers to keep the critters away
f82r62
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Location: Withcott, Qld
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Antifouling Options

Post by f82r62 »

Hi all,



I'm building a Schionning Waterline 1320 near Toowoomba in Queensland. Off to a slow start having only completed the shell of one hull and about to start the next. Ah, the joy of building a cat, you get to do everything twice.



Before turning the first hull I applied Cop-R-Bote, thinking the additional epoxy would provide a good barrier and the copper would reduce the amount of growth, but I now have reservations. The product is based on Bote-Cote epoxy, which is very thin - more like a 2 part epoxy paint. Not at all like the West System and other epoxies I am used to.



Has anyone had any experience with Cop-R-Bote?



Harry
mahnamahna
Posts: 580
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Location: Gosford NSW

Antifouling Options

Post by mahnamahna »

Hi Harry,

Welcome to the forum and from me welcome to the Schionning builders here. I am building a 1230 wilderness. I have just finished the shell. So I am about half way through my build although I think past half way as I plan to line a lot of my internal surfaces which is faster and easier than fairing them. I still think I have 2 years of work though. Anyway back on topic. I and many other builders make our own version of Cop-r-bote or Coppercoat or any other commercial copper epoxy by mixing copper powder and epoxy. With a normal cheapy drill with a paint mixer on I managed to get 2:1 mix copper to epoxy by weight (or 66.6% copper). I mixed in 1.5 kg batches and used 4.5kgs per (3 kilos of copper 1.5kg epoxy) per hull.

I am told by the guys at Boatcraft that their mix is 3:1 or 75% copper but you have to be careful to mix it thouroughly again before application or the copper that is suspended in the mix will eventually fall in the drum. The more copper you get in the mix, the more effective it is as you have more copper exposed, although one would think that there would be a limit to that as theoretically if there was say 99% copper 1% epoxy you could not get it to stay stuck to the boat.

I am surprised at what you say about their mix though, becuase I have used some of their epoxy and it seems thicker than West to me.

A couple of other tips I have picked up about copper epoxy (I have a friend with a boat that has been in the water 7 years and he still has not replaced it yet but it is getting less effective) is that typically you will need to give the bottom a scrub (in the water with a brush or broom) about once a month but as it starts to lose effectiveness this frequency will increase to as often as once a week but as it starts to lose effectiveness you can rejuvinate it by using wet and dry paper and giving the bottom a sand (by hand with a cork block) about once a year to expose some fresh copper. This way you should get at least 5 years of effective use, and a few years more of lesser effectiveness but good enough.

Finally just as a side note I am testing another anti foul material (and I must stress here I have no financial interest in the product just an interest in using it if it continues to pass my test). It is called PureSeal and is a silicon like paint on material that I think was originally developed for use in lining the inside of pipes for the oil industry, anyway it is supposed to be so slippery that nothing can stick to it including paint so once it is on you are stuck with it, the only thing you can do is sand it off or coat more of it on. I have been testing it on a steel plate on the end of my pier. The first sample they sent me worked for 6 months then at 9 months was fully encrusted. But they claimed the first formula was flawed so I gave them another chance and so far after 2 years 3 months at 1 Mar, and it is still working. Any light algal growth comes off with the wipe of the pad of my finger, no scraping or scrubing. Magic stuff, my only reservation is it does scratch so if you ground you may scrape enough off that growth can occur where you have removed. But if I use it it will be over the copper epoxy anyway so it will act as a second layer of antifoul.

If you want to follow my test log on to http://www.mahnamahna.com.au (my build blog) and check at the start of each season for the pureseal progress report.

Cheers,

Paul
f82r62
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:19 am
Location: Withcott, Qld
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Antifouling Options

Post by f82r62 »

Hi Paul,



Thanks for the info. I tried to buy the copper powder through Schionning as mixing it with West epoxy is way cheaper than the commercial coppercoats, but they have stopped supplying it. They explained it was something to do with new environment/safety laws. But I noticed on this forum it is still available.



I have seen your pureseal reports and follow with interest. A surface that slippery must also reduce drag and increase boat speed.



Harry
44c
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Location: Hervey Bay, Qld

Antifouling Options

Post by 44c »

ATL still sell the copper I think. It might be worth pricing ATL stuff direct just to compare with Schionnings prices too.



http://www.atlcomposites.com/index.htm
mahnamahna
Posts: 580
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: Gosford NSW

Antifouling Options

Post by mahnamahna »

Hi Harry, ATL do still sell the copper powder, but if you ring ATL for a price and tell them you are building a Schionning they will refer you to Schionning anyway in the deal they have. They say that as Schionning builders you will get a better price from Schionning.

As it happens I bought my copper direct from ATL 18 months ago (I must have not mentioned I was building a Schionning!) but if ATL dont supply it any more you can get it at a number of places. I got some for the Waller being built in my shed from a model making company (apparently there are people who make models of soldiers etc out of tin then coat them in copper). You wont get a fixed price though. The price fluctuates weekly. I got 10kgs for $335 so $33.50 per kilo about October last year. I think commodity prices have fallen since then so it could be a bit less.

How much was the cop-r-bote if you dont mind me asking?

And yes reduced drag is one of the Pureseal claims, they also claim that the algal growth I get on the plate under my jetty will be naturally removed by a mobile boat and I can attest to that as last time I pulled the plate out for testing on Dec 1 the plate was clean and I put that down to the storms that we had mid Nov creating rapid water movement past the plate. So far I am very impressed with the stuff, over 2 years in the water and the only signs of wear look like they are tiny hairline scratches which baffled me at first as I only clean the plates with the pad of my finger (not my fingernails) and only 8 times in 2 years so I could not figure where they were coming from, then I realized it must be a sandblasting effect of sediment in the water sandblasting the plates. I have reckoned that if the stuff is still in serviceable condition at my launch time of about another 18months - 2 years I will definitely put the stuff on. Having said that, I dont really know a price yet. Just one other thing I have seen and has been discussed here is ultrasonic anti fouling. If the price of that came down a little further that would be a viable option also. Maybe a combination of all 3 might mean never ever having to anti foul for the life (15 - 20 years) of the boat. What wonderful times we live in.

Cheers,

Paul
f82r62
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:19 am
Location: Withcott, Qld
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Antifouling Options

Post by f82r62 »

I bought a 12 litre pack, about 25kg all up. It was about $1200 delivered a year ago. I notice on the Boatcraft Pacific website the price has increased to over $1400. harry
madaz
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Location: Hobart, Tasmania

Antifouling Options

Post by madaz »

The place Paul is reffering to is probably "Barnes" http://www.barnesonline.com.au/product. ... ily=Copper



there copper powder is currently $385 for 10kg. i bought mine direct from them, as previously mentioned the price varies with the resources prices almost daily.
Philip
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Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: Antifouling Options

Post by Philip »

Copper powder is normally made for the powder metal industry. So try to puchase from this industry they use it by the ton so it should have less mark up.

Philip
mySerenity
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Re: Antifouling Options

Post by mySerenity »

Philip

Welcome to the Forum and appreciate this rather handy bit of advice. You wouldn't be able to provide further pointers by any chance?

James
James
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https://www.youtube.com/user/puremajek
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mahnamahna
Posts: 580
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: Gosford NSW

Re: Antifouling Options

Post by mahnamahna »

Its been a while since this topic was dredged up. Some of you will remember I had a test panel of metal hanging from the pier in front of my home with Pure Seal on it. It was the second sample I received from the then supplier Southern Seas/McIntyre Marine.

The first sample failed after about 9 months, which is a fail in all respects. They sent a second plate, smaller than the first and after 3 years it gradually started to lose its effectiveness, and I have moved away from that place leaving the sample panel there. Its probably still there and I might see if I can retrieve it.

Anyway at the time I considered 3 years a fair result. I have 3 tins of the stuff. Not sure though if the samples I have are original batch or new improved, nor do I know what its coverage is so I dont know if the 9 litres I have will cover my 2 hulls. McIntyre Marine got burnt on the stuff, refunding and paying for re slipping etc on boats that had the bad batch on and dont have anything to do with the stuff any more.

The branding on the tin says Praesidium coatings, no mention of Pure Seal. I tried to contact Praesidium in the UK but never got a reply and now a google search does not find them. I think the factory is long gone. Stories I was told a few years ago was that the stuff was originally developed to line long distance oil pipes to increase oil flow.

My guess is that Antifoul was an after thought for the manufacturers and I think that perhaps the product just needed a little more tweaking to make it work for the marine environment properly, but alas I think the original failures (and rush to market) have caused so much loss that it was just closed down.

Its a shame really because I think they were onto something. Without trying to reinvent the wheel, I tried a little more research into this and found this product. Problem is I have contacted them to ask them their thoughts on how it might work as an antifoul and crickets. Nothing. 2 emails in 2 weeks and nothing.

What do you guys think, should I keep trying or give up on this idea?

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