lifepo batteries

Things 12V and 24V
Whimsical
Posts: 370
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:01 pm
Location: Fremantle W.A.

lifepo batteries

Post by Whimsical » Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:52 am

Looking at getting a group buy going.
Have people interested in about 3,000 A/h but the more the merrier.
Am looking at CALB, China Aviation cells, the blue ones in 180 A/H, they are actually just over 200 A/H. Link http://www.ev-power.com.au/-Sky-Energy-Batteries-.html From what i read on the car sites they seem to be a bit higher quality than the Thunderskys and aboutt he same price
It will take several months to get a shipment from China and a few people are getting close to launch so will probably have to get it going around xmas. That won't be a problem as they don't mind sitting for extended periods

Mike

sea_bee
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:09 pm
Location: Pillar Valley NSW

Re: lifepo batteries

Post by sea_bee » Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:06 pm

I'm interested! From reading your posts on another forum, it seems that you have done the research, and I would be happy to follow your recommendation.

If you want 3000A/h capacity, why are you looking at the smaller 180 cells rather than the 400s?

Are you planning to import direct, or bulk purchase from a local wholesaler?

Whimsical
Posts: 370
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:01 pm
Location: Fremantle W.A.

Re: lifepo batteries

Post by Whimsical » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:06 pm

There is several reasons for going for the 180's.
There is seven of us in it now. Some want 400 and some 600A/H and 1 wants 200. The 180's are actually a bit over 200A/H. Cells have slightly different internal resistance and capacity and it is common to pair up the cells so the overall pack is well matched and the 180's give more options for this. if we do this they should stay in balance even better than they usualy do. The 180's are the most common so if a cell should ever die replacement will be easier as many people stock them, 400's would need a longer lead time. The smaller cell gives more choices for location. only downside is more links needed to couple them all up.

Paul,Mahnamahna, tried to source them cheaper by going direct and it was not any cheaper. There is a distrubutor here in Perth i was going to use.
The special order will be 50% down and the rest on delivery.

Mike

mahnamahna
Posts: 580
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: Gosford NSW

Re: lifepo batteries

Post by mahnamahna » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:26 pm

The prices direct from various factories I enquired with was about the same as Mikes source in Perth. I figure I dont know enough about them to risk bringing them in if there is no major price advantage. Its relatively early in the product development/market maturity cycle so there are still good factories and not so good. So by using a local distributor that you assume knows a good battery from a bad one, its safer to go with a local supplier IF the price is close to as good as you can get anyway.

Risks are only worth taking on self importing if the saving is so great that you can afford some failures and still be way in front. If you can only get within 10% of a local you ought to take the local every time. You have local warranty and back up and that is worth about 10% in my opinion. (its not worth 40% as an example on big $ purchases).

44c
Posts: 1148
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:08 am
Location: Hervey Bay, Qld

Re: lifepo batteries

Post by 44c » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:51 am

Prices?

Whimsical
Posts: 370
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:01 pm
Location: Fremantle W.A.

Re: lifepo batteries

Post by Whimsical » Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:52 pm

Waiting for the info now. Expect it to be around $1.35/ cell A/h or $5.35 per A/H @12V
so a 360 A/H battery, Which is actually about 400 A/H would be $1926 Inc GST. This seems to be about a 20% discount.
I have spoken to both CALB and Thundersky dealers here CALB wants 100% up front and Thundersky 50%. The CALB comes with cell data for capacity and internal resistance so they they can be matched up better Thundersky gives nothing.
Delivery from both is quoted at about 8 weeks from payment.

Mike

mahnamahna
Posts: 580
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: Gosford NSW

Re: lifepo batteries

Post by mahnamahna » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:18 pm

The quotes I have been getting are between $400 and $500 for a 100AH battery, packed into a case similar to Lead Acid and with battery management on board. But it is also my experience that you can add 20% to the cost to land them and of course 15% for duty (5%) and gst(10%) and if you bring in more than $1000 worth customs wont release the goods before you pay the 15% and bringing stuff in just under $1000 might save you the taxes but you lose out on both the freight rate and the price from the factory because of volume discounts. So either way you lose. By the way, gst is struck on a deemed rate of what is called CIF, cargo value, insurance cost and freight, that is the govt decides the price you paid for freight and insurance even if you didnt insure, and adds it to the invoiced value on your commercial invoice and tells you what tax is due.

So even assuming the $400 price, (which you usually only get if you are giving them a decent order), thats about $550 per 100 AH landed or about $2000 for 400 AH.

So considering someone has already landed them, and is making a margin themselves that is a pretty good price as far as I can tell.

sea_bee
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:09 pm
Location: Pillar Valley NSW

Re: lifepo batteries

Post by sea_bee » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:55 am

In addition to the cells, what is the best way for battery monitoring/management? Do you recommend buy the complete system from someone like EV Power or can this be put together from components?

Chris

Whimsical
Posts: 370
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:01 pm
Location: Fremantle W.A.

Re: lifepo batteries

Post by Whimsical » Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:19 pm

some people have been running them without BMS and have not found them to drift apart. Only 4 cells and drift isn't so important as it can't put a damaging voltage on only 1 cell. I have 2 Cellog monitors that show the individual cell voltages. If balancing is ever required it is quite easy to do manually. Some of the others are using them as well, even have alarms u can set for each cell if u want to. Bloody expensive a whole $14 ea from Hobby King in Hong Kong.

http://www.progressiverc.com/catalogsea ... ?q=celllog

This place sells IOTA chargers v cheap, I got 1 from there 220V 55A model only $189 plus post. Don't need a fancy charger for lifepo just a constant voltage is fine.

teamROAM
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:03 pm
Location: Beaumaris, Tasmania

Re: lifepo batteries

Post by teamROAM » Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:22 pm

Hi Mike

I'm interested. Tried to give you a call but says you number is disconnected. Have you changed it? Can you shoot me a PM with your current phone number and Ill geve you a shout.

Cheers
Mick

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