refrigeration

Suggestions on keeping the cook happy
44c
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Location: Hervey Bay, Qld

refrigeration

Post by 44c » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:59 pm

mahnamahna wrote:No I am going to have to bite the bullet and buy this little beauty.



http://www.isotherm.com/en/index.html?fixframe=1&


That's a nice fridge, but IMO too expensive. If/when it breaks down, it's not a cheap replacement option, you'll have to pay to have it fixed.



I got a westinghouse 90 litre freezer for $300, it was the most efficient freezer of that size on the government website, 5 stars in the old system. There is also a 90 litre matching fridge, also quite efficient.



I have a pair of 1500 watt pure sine wave inverters, which cost $330 each.

mahnamahna
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refrigeration

Post by mahnamahna » Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:50 pm

44c wrote:That's a nice fridge, but IMO too expensive. If/when it breaks down, it's not a cheap replacement option, you'll have to pay to have it fixed.

I got a westinghouse 90 litre freezer for $300, it was the most efficient freezer of that size on the government website, 5 stars in the old system. There is also a 90 litre matching fridge, also quite efficient.

I have a pair of 1500 watt pure sine wave inverters, which cost $330 each.


I dont think it would be that hard to repair. You see the cut away in the top left corner, thats where the danfoss bd50 sits. From all reports danfoss are a very robust compressor. I would say if that went, a replacement would not be a big job. Then there is a condenser plate, no moving parts in them but I suppose they can corrode, not sure and I assume somewhere in them is a thermostat and volume dial, and a light controlled by the door. But I think its the compressor that is most likely to go and that would be a fairly easy swap out given where they put it, and probably for that reason.



I agree wholeheartedly on the way too expensive, around double to triple your domestic prices (figure about $800 to $1000 for side by side matching under bench fridge and freezer), but there are 2 reasons for that, 1 reasonable, 1 lousy, the first is production scales, they would churn out thousands of domestic fridges all the same bringing down the cost of production compared to hundreds of the marine variety so fair enough.



The other reason is that magic word marine, which seems to translate into these people own boats, therefore they must be rich therefore they will pay tripple for stuff. Thats the part that sucks. This same fridge is available in the US retail for US$1800 (about AU$US1900 plus the freight to get it here) http://www.marinewarehouse.net/isotherm.html#Stainless why is it that we must pay double that here. Fortunately I will be getting it at wholesale which is $2800 but how is it that our wholesale is still 30% more than the US retail? The freight from the US in a what is called LCL where you buy only some space in a container on one of these would be about $500 if you were only bringing one, but at least 20 would fit in a 20ft container and that would cost $4000 to bring over so about $200 per fridge at most. (If I had to pay retail here of $3800 I would not even consider this as an option). There is also a used one on ebay at the moment for $1800.



This is the part that really annoys me, it annoys me to the point that I have no hesitation in buying overseas wherever I can. I want to support Aussie business, but not when they are robbing us blind. It annoyed me enough to start importing hatches, it annoys me enough that the first place I look now is OS and I contemplate a bulk shipment of anything high $ to see if it is worthwhile becoming an importer of them. I am thinking about bringing in solar panels and maybe even lithium batteries although I am a bit concerned about my lack of knowledge with the batteries, but solar panels are a dime a dozen ex China now or even ex retail US. You can buy solar panels for about US2$ per watt now. It actually got to less than that but they seem to be climbing again. I am bringing in 1000watts for myself in 130 watt panels but they will change the panel confguration, and whilst I dont know the shipping cost yet, I figure it will add about 15% to the cost, plus I will most likely have to pay duty and gst which adds another 15% so for about AU$3 per watt. A 200watt panel here retails for over $1000 so I am saving about half I think.



Its a joke how badly we are ripped off in Australia regarding marine products.

Jim
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refrigeration

Post by Jim » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:47 pm

Before you go to the trouble of importing panels check out eBay. A sydney company LHP has 2 x 200w panels for $1099 with free delivery. I bought mine from them 2 x250w 24v for $900 each and while they wouldn't come down on the price they threw a free regulator into the deal, (I spoke to them on the phone) One panel was broken on delivery and they replaced it with no dramas. I agree with you on the local prices, after a while I didn't even bother looking for bits in Aust. I just went straight to the US.

Jim.

mahnamahna
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refrigeration

Post by mahnamahna » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:15 am

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the ebay tip, I have been watching a number of them. Funny I am already watching that exact auction. I have a highly curved roof on my boat, and because of that I have enquired with a chinese factory that makes thin film monocrystal panels that are bendable (normally bendable solar is known as amorphous and not as effiecient as mono or poly crystal) and am waiting to find out the limitations specs ect. I figure I can get an extra 20% roof cover with them and may use a combination of the normal mono panel and these flexing panels to completely cover the roof. Even if the flex panels are less effective, they will still be better than no panel at all and because of the said roof curve I either block it all out to get a flat section to get more panels which would look very ugly and change the windage of the boat, or I fit flexing panels to the curves (or I dont fit them on the more curved section losing about 20%). It is these curved panels I am thinking of importing because there are plenty of suppliers for the standard panels as you have pointed out. Schionning have sold flex panel in the past but very expensive and amorphous. I am not sure if being monocrystal and flexible is a new development. Still waiting on details. If these are a new development in panel is anyone else interested in them?

mahnamahna
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refrigeration

Post by mahnamahna » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:41 pm

An update on the fridge, BLA had a couple of this model fridge on offer for much less than normal, they had a returned unused one (the customer opted for an even bigger fridge so BLA agreed to take that one back) that they wanted $2200 for but it was gone by the time I enquired. They also had a demo model (would say it was used at boat shows or in their showroom) not sure what they wanted for that one, the rep was going to get back to us and also a refurbished repaired one.



The repaired refurb is the one I bought, got it for $1680 (wholesale is $2840 and retail $3800), it arrived to the customer (probably a larger production boat builder because they got a swap out rather than the repaired unit back which is what you get when you have big budget clout) with a gas/coolant leak, was replaced under warranty and refurbed which I have bought.



The reason I let you guys know all of this is that if you are ever in the market for these big $ items, it pays to ask about such things as demo models, or refurbs.



I also have a question about these sorts of fridges. They can operate in eihter 12v or 240v. and can detect when 240v is available and they switch to it. My question is why? Is 240v more efficient? If when attached to shore power is it better to bypass the batteries and go direct from the inverter? which is drawing direct from shore power? I confess to being a complete dummy on electrics. Any help?

Jim
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refrigeration

Post by Jim » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:08 pm

When on shore power my fridge runs on 240v but I leave the switch on the circuit board to "ON" my theory being that if there is a power failure, like last night, the fridge will switch to 12v and not spoil food. While on 240v it takes the effort off the batteries, but I don't know if this is help full or not.

Jim.

mahnamahna
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refrigeration

Post by mahnamahna » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:18 pm

Yes Jim very helpful, pretty obvious I guess, I feel a bit silly having asked, why cycle through batteries that have a limited number of cycles when there is no need to. I guess what I am really asking is, is there any efficiency gain in AC at 240v over DC at 12v?

Jim
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refrigeration

Post by Jim » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:26 am

Don't know, that is a question for somebody who understands electrickery.

Jim.

Finally
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refrigeration

Post by Finally » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:00 am

mahnamahna wrote:I also have a question about these sorts of fridges. They can operate in eihter 12v or 240v. and can detect when 240v is available and they switch to it. My question is why? Is 240v more efficient? If when attached to shore power is it better to bypass the batteries and go direct from the inverter? which is drawing direct from shore power? I confess to being a complete dummy on electrics. Any help?


Paul



I'm going to show a bit of ignorance when it comes to "electrickery" but I asked the gurus at work (I'm a pencil pusher for an electrical company but not an electrician), and I have made an assumption that the fridge is equipped with a power supply that can detect both 240v and 12v and switches automatically between the two. But to do this (so I assumed and confirmed correct) you will have two inlets into the power supply - one from your 12v circuit and the other from your 240v circuit.



So, if this is the case, the simple answer as to what is more efficient was "240v is more efficient because it will draw less current (as compared to 12v)". But this is based entirely on the assumption of a power supply as described above.



Does that help?



David

mahnamahna
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refrigeration

Post by mahnamahna » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:00 am

Thanks David, yes it does help. It is purely to satisfy my curiosity because having established the folly of cycling through the batteries un-necessarily unless there was some massive efficiency gain at 240v there would be no real point running on 240v via the inverter but from the batteries when not on shore power (or else all fridges would be 240v via inverters as standard and of course when on shore power, there is no real concern as to the efficiency or otherwise except the warm fuzzy feeling of knowing you are still maintaining a minimal carbon footprint when on shore power.



Having said that, shore power to us will be our invitation to relax a bit about conserving power, time to run the washing machine or dishwasher and tv and laptops to our hearts content and not worry about power or water for a while.

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