Owner Built Resale

For those areas not suitable below and directly related to general building or fitout topics
44c
Posts: 1148
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:08 am
Location: Hervey Bay, Qld

Owner Built Resale

Post by 44c » Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:26 pm

rexd666 wrote:Hey all,
As a quick introduction, my name is Steve, I live in inner eastern Melbourne and have been looking at a few designs. I am currently 35 and wanted to do this (live aboard and see the world) while I am still young. (Wasn't that long ago that 35 was old) Generally looking at around 50', so far Oram 48C, Schionning Wilderness 1500 and Spirited 480. All Duflex kits. My build will be part time, and I will have to commute to the build site so weekends, holidays and maybe some professional help along the way budget permitting. Budget is still being determined, but say 300K+ at the end, expect to start out with about 100K.

Anyway one of the concerns from the lovely wife is that said project would use up all my worldly possessions and leave us with very little at the end of the process. Therefore I thought I would ask around to see what sort of examples are about of owner built cats that have gone on to sell. I see Schionnings advertised for 500-600+, but most seem pro builds. Is there a significant impact on the resale price for owner built?

Schionnings appear the best represented design, I know Spirited are new, but one would assume the Schionning name rubs off on them. About the only Oram I have seen for sale is Mango. So also happy to hear any opinions around the design resales, so if one sells for more etc. No arguments from avid fans of particular designs please.

Not saying that I want to sell my hard work, but I guess it will give the wife some security to know we can get all or a good part of our initial investment back.


An owner-built boat probably won't sell for as much as a pro-built one. But you should still make good wages for your time spent on the boat, if you do a reasonable job with the finishing.



Do a nice galley and bathroom, these appeal to the ladies, who usually make the ultimate decision.



Of the boats you've listed, the Oram 48C would be the quickest and cheapest to build, it's essentially my boat, a wider, taller 44C, with 4 extra feet of waterline. Bob also does a 50C, which is a much bigger boat, and more similar to the Wilderness and Spirited. (But I still think it would be quicker and cheaper than either of them to build.)



I don't think you'd get a Spirited or Schionning kit for your starting budget of $100k. You'd get the Oram 48C though, with change.



The Schionning builders I've talked to are happy with the support from Schionning's, all the Oram builders I know of have been happy with Bob, but I have met a few Spirited builders who don't have very nice things to say about Craig Schionning.



It seems he is very strict, almost dictatorial, about making even the most minute changes to his designs, (and there are some changes that really need to be made) and he is also very interested in making money from them.

mahnamahna
Posts: 579
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: Gosford NSW

Owner Built Resale

Post by mahnamahna » Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:27 pm

rexd666 wrote:I was going to say PM me and I can see if we have any customers in the area that I can recommend. But looks like no PM option on the forum??.
There is a pm option, there should be a button with pm on it under each persons message, but as you are new it may not kick in until you get to a certain number of posts.



Dont worry we dont need the glass after all, we were making a vacuum table to make my own panels from polycore instead of balsa, so like a duflex panel except with a polypropylene honeycomb core, I am using this material to build the furniture in my boat. We just used melamine sheets instead.

mahnamahna
Posts: 579
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: Gosford NSW

Owner Built Resale

Post by mahnamahna » Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:04 pm

44c wrote:I don't think you'd get a Spirited or Schionning kit for your starting budget of $100k. You'd get the Oram 48C though, with change.

The Schionning builders I've talked to are happy with the support from Schionning's, all the Oram builders I know of have been happy with Bob, but I have met a few Spirited builders who don't have very nice things to say about Craig Schionning.

It seems he is very strict, almost dictatorial, about making even the most minute changes to his designs, (and there are some changes that really need to be made) and he is also very interested in making money from them.


Just to add to this my kit was $75000 4 years ago, and the plans $11000 on top of that. In fact if I have one complaint with Schionnings it is that the plan price was a surprise additional cost, but then I guess I did not ask properly. I met them at a boat show and asked how much the kit was, to which they told me without mentioning the plans were extra, they mentioned the furniture kit was an extra $15000 but no mention of the plans so I assumed they came included in the kit price. So a year later I had my $90000 for the boat and furniture kits and went to see them. Then they sprung the plan cost on me. I did not have the extra $11k so I skipped the furniture kit (actually now I am pleased I did as I want a different layout to their standard layout and the kit would have been a waste anyway). But that little oversight of their sales pitch aside I could not be happier with the relationship I have with them.



You are the third independent and unrelated person I have heard say that Craig is not the best person to deal with. Which seems totally out of character to the person I know. Craig sold me the 1230 kit whilst with Schionning just a matter of weeks before launching Spirited and I have kept in contact with him at boat shows and he has always been quite nice in his dealings with me and inquires about my progress, he and his wife Marina (yes I had to laugh too) remember Jo's name and are always very pleasant, while Jo and I are on their boats and no chance of a sale so it is not just salesmanship. And I have an admiration for his ethics in that he must have been planning his move for some time but did not pull me aside and say hold off I have something in the works that might interest you. But 3 people all say the same thing. Perhaps the stress of running his own business is not sitting well with him at times.



Having said all of the above and not wishing to speak ill of people in a public forum, I have heard Jeff can be quite difficult to deal with at times too. So perhaps it is a family trait.

rexd666
Site Admin
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:15 am
Location: Melbourne, Vic

Owner Built Resale

Post by rexd666 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:11 am

44c,

The 48c is definitely up there at the moment, Bob did let me know he is working on another new design this year a little longer so the 50C will be retired. The 48c already has some changes to reduce build time.



You practice what you preach as your galley is absolutely awesome. I will have to go back and look at your bathroom again to see that. Did you build full time or part time?



Nice to hear some feedback on dealing with the designers, I would always make up my own mind, but it does open your eyes to questions to ask up front about the build process. I can see a designer would want his work to stay true to the design, but the owner builder option would have to be open to customisation of details.



Thanks for all the good comments so far and the willingness to share experiences and costs. Time to save my pennies and find a build site. Will still be reading and asking questions, probably not answering too many.

Steve

Jim
Posts: 691
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 8:25 am
Location: Cairns

Owner Built Resale

Post by Jim » Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:56 pm

On re-sale I would think if you couldn't make a bit over 100% on your build costs, it would be a fairly crappy build, and a good glass boat will be worth nearly double a ply one, but so is the build cost. Mine cost K120 but should sell for high 200s.

Jim.

mahnamahna
Posts: 579
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: Gosford NSW

Owner Built Resale

Post by mahnamahna » Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:04 am

Rex, it seems the market for ply multis has really picked up.



http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-s ... ?R=8291485



If you are worried about resale this listing should dispel it.

rexd666
Site Admin
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:15 am
Location: Melbourne, Vic

Owner Built Resale

Post by rexd666 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:46 am

Fibglass over ply is about right.



Assuming that price is a mistake, is that an extra 2 zero's???

mahnamahna
Posts: 579
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: Gosford NSW

Owner Built Resale

Post by mahnamahna » Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:49 am

rexd666 wrote:Fibglass over ply is about right.

Assuming that price is a mistake, is that an extra 2 zero's???


Yeah I would have thought they meant $85,000.00 but thought it was good for a laugh.

Smooth Cruiser
Posts: 583
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 1:51 am
Location: Brisbane

Owner Built Resale

Post by Smooth Cruiser » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:04 pm

That must mean I'm sitting on about $20mill :shock:

mahnamahna
Posts: 579
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: Gosford NSW

Owner Built Resale

Post by mahnamahna » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:37 pm

Smooth Cruiser wrote:That must mean I'm sitting on about $20mill :shock:


Yep you stuck gold. Spotters fee? 8)

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